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August 06, 2004 MAJOR ASIAN AMERICAN PUNDIT WRITES BOOK JUSTIFYING THE INTERNMENT I just had to post this immediately, not much time to compose a newsflash; here's an email I just got from historian Greg Robinson (author of By Order of the President: FDR and the Internment of Japanese Americans), who is an advisor for Life or Liberty.
Dear friends and colleagues, Many of you may be shocked to know there's people out there who have recently argued and written books justifying the internment of Japanese Americans. To catch up with what I know on the topic, you can read the online debate I had with one of these people last year: Archived posts on the WWII internment This debate arose from the story that Representative Coble, who was (still is?) Chair of the House of Representatives Subcommittee on Domestic Security, had made comments favorable to the WWII internment on the radio, and has never retracted them. Michelle Malkin is a substantial darling of the right wing; the fact she's Asian American may well lend legitimacy to the "pro-internment" side of a debate officially settled years ago, and bring others out of their hidey-holes.
Posted by aderkon on August 6, 2004 02:44 PM
Comments Hey Konrad, is that dopey pic in the upper left really you? It's been a while since our debate from the Coble thing. Glad you chose to feature it on your site so people can read and decide for themselves... Couple things.... 1. A new site that I think you'll enjoy browsing... http://www.internmentarchives.com/ P.S. Your "dead cracker" comment over on spoons, regarding David Loman... Are you a RACIST? Anyway here are some more facts for anybody who might happen to visit your site, although it looks a little dead. I posted it over at Bad Culture, too.... Regards, Your pal Tony... It is well-documented that the evacuation was motivated, not by racism, but by information obtained by the U.S. from pre-war decoded Japanese diplomatic messages "MAGIC" and other intelligence revealed the existence of espionage and the potential for sabotage involving then-unidentified resident Japanese aliens and Japanese-Americans living within the West Coast Japanese community. You can read about MAGIC and it's subseqently being ignored by the reparations commission here. The actual declassified MAGIC intercepts are here. http://www.athenapressinc.com/smithsonian/Appendix3.html
Only persons of Japanese ancestry (alien and citizen) residing in the West Coast military zones were affected by the evacuation order. Those living elsewhere were not affected at all.
It is not true that Japanese-Americans were "interned. Only Japanese nationals (enemy aliens) arrested and given individual hearings were interned. Such persons were held for deportation in Department of Justice camps. Those evacuated were not interned. They were first given an opportunity to voluntarily move to areas outside the military zones. Those unable or unwilling to do so were sent to Relocation Centers operated by the War Relocation Authority. At the time, the JACL (Japanese American Citizens League) officially supported the government's evacuation order and urged all enemy alien Japanese and Japanese Americans to cooperate and assist the government in their own self interest.
It is misleading and in error to state that those affected by the evacuation orders were all "Japanese-Americans." Approximately two-thirds of the ADULTS among those evacuated were Japanese nationals--enemy aliens. The vast majority of evacuated Japanese-Americans (U.S. citizens) were children at the time. Their average age was only 15 years. In addition, over 90% of Japanese-Americans over age 17 were also citizens of Japan (dual citizens)under Japanese law. Thousands had been educated in Japan. Some having returned to the U.S. holding reserve rank in the Japanese armed forces. During the war, more than 33,000 evacuees voluntarily left the relocation centers to accept outside employment. An additional 4300 left to attend colleges.
In a questionaire, over 26% of Japanese-Americans of military age at the time said they would refuse to swear an unqualified oath of allegiance to the United States.
According to War Relocation Authority records, 13,000 applications renouncing their U.S. citizenship and requesting expatriation to Japan were filed by or on behalf of Japanese-Americans during World War II. Over 5,000 had been processed by the end of the war.
After loyalty screening, eighteen thousand Japanese nationals and Japanese-Americans were segregated at a special center for disloyals at Tule Lake California where regular military "Banzai" drills in support of Emperor Hirohito were held.
The Supreme Court of the United States upheld the Consitutionality of the evacuation/relocation in Korematsu v. U.S., 1944 term. In summing up for the 6-3 majority, Justice Black wrote:
It should be noted that the relocation centers had many amenities. Accredited schools, their own newspapers, stores, churches, hospitals, all sorts of sports and recreational facilities. They also had the highest percapita wartime birth rates for any U.S.community. More history for you to consider regarding the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians: Consider that of the nine commission members, six were biased in favor of reparations. Ishmail Gromoff and William Marutani, relocatees themselves, sat in judgment of their own cases. Arthur Goldberg and Joan Bernstein made sympathetic, pro-reparation statements publicly before hearings even began. Arthur Fleming had worked closely with the JACL (he was a keynote speaker at its Portland convention in the '70s). Robert Drinan was a co-sponsor of the bill establishing the commission. Consider that notices of when and where hearings were to be held were not made known to the general, non-Japanese public. Consider that witnesses who gave testimony were not sworn to tell the truth. Consider that witnesses who were pro-reparation were carefully coached in their testimony in "mock hearings" beforehand. Consider that witnesses against reparation were harassed and drowned out by foot-stomping Japanese claques, that the commission members themselves ridiculed and badgered these same witnesses. Consider that not one historian was asked to testify before the commission, that intelligence reports and position papers contrary to reparations were deliberately ignored. Consider that as a result of the above, the United States Department of Justice objected strongly to the findings of the commission. Lastly while we've all been educated on the doctrines associated with the rise of Nazism, I would be curious to know if courses are provided teaching the history of the doctrines of Japanese militarism, a belief system similar and equally as insidious as Nazism? Any clasess on the kokutai? Hakko Ichiu? Any reading of Kokutai no Hongi? Shimin to Michi? The role of Nichiren Buddhism and Japanese "Language Schools" in teaching these doctines of Japanese racial superiorty to ethnic Japanese colonies throughout the word prior to Pearl Harbor? Those of you learning this history at your public schools and universities should understand you are being taught an extemely biased and partial version of what really happened and why. I would urge you to go beyond the politically correct version of this history as propagated by the Japanese-American reparations movement. Posted by Tony at August 12, 2004 11:43 PMTony, "Dead WW2 cracker" was a term I made up..."cracker" is normally a term for people who hate blacks, I think. No racism in the term, unless you insist only whites can be racist towards blacks. I made up the term "WW2 cracker" to mean people who have feelings against Japanese people stemming from WW2, which since then have festered into anger which lumps together the reparations commission, strains of Japanese culture, and the families of people who were relocated and interned who feel it was wrong. Sound like anyone we know? Here's my previous online discussions with Tony: http://www.badculture.com/archives/000022.html http://www.badculture.com/archives/000025.html http://www.badculture.com/archives/000028.html If you want a real historian's view of Michelle Malkin's book, Eric Muller, author of Free to Die for Their Country: The Story of the Japanese American Draft Resisters in World War II and a Public Law and Legal Theory Research Paper entitled Inference or Impact? Racial Profiling and the Internment's True Legacy, basically wipes the floor with Mrs. Malkin's arguments. IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 1 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091616777 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 2 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091619044 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 3 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091629458 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 4 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091641181 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 4 (The Robinson Rebuttal) http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091668060 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 5 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091680275 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 6 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091720427 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 7 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091756341 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 8 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091758091 IN DEFENSE OF INTERNMENT, Part 9 http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2004_08_00.shtml#1091758478
Actually Konrad, "cracker" is an old southern term upper class whites used to refer to lower class whites. As you well know, the term in now used by minorities to disparage whites.... Yes, I read all of Robinson's comments. To state MAGIC is irrelevent because no document exists that states, "WE MADE A DECISION TO EVACUATE BASED ON MAGIC", is disengenous and not much of a defense. Robinson and other pro-reparations folks are up in arms because at the very least they are being exposed as ignoring the other side of the debate. Debating this history in any terms contrary to Personal Justice Denied had been a sacred cow for over twenty years now and all we want is a healthy debate. Regards, Tony P.S. Is that your picture? (It's not really dopey. I was just flaming.) Your appearence looks to be that you are half ethnic Japanese? Am I correct? Posted by Tony at August 13, 2004 12:14 PMThe picture with my name under it is me. I'm Japanese on my mom's side. I have nothing against a healthy debate. But there's been a lot of confusion in the internment revisionists' arguments from an apparent need to attack all their imagined adversaries at once. If Malkin or anyone is attempting to use MAGIC as a justification for the removal and confinement of innocent people based on their ancestry, and to prove her claim that the internment was not racist, it's her burden to show that it was actually used to make the decision for confinement, and HOW it was used. Well, as you admitted, no such documentation has been found. Robinson and other historians have exhaustively documented the other factors, including racist ideas, written in government documents, of the ethnic Japanese as being culturally prone to disloyalty. Ideas of the kind you helpfully subscribe to in your post above. If Malkin is going to suggest an alternative decision-making process to the thoroughly documented one, she can't just make it up in her ideological head; she has to base it on some evidence. The MAGIC excerpts by themselves don't prove anything about what FDR and others did about them. So you and Malkin dig up tales of some Japanese Americans who were engaged in some kind of disloyalty, as if that justifies treating 110,000 people as potentially disloyal because they happen to share their ancestry. You rave about the internment of Germans and other Europeans at Crystal City: "See? The ethnic Japanese weren't the only ones interned." SO WHAT? How does that relate to the argument? Are you saying that was wrong too and unjustly ignored in the reparations movement? That would be a legitimate grievance to pursue. But obviously you and Malkin don't really give a shit about those internees, they're just your tool to make another jab at the work of the reparations commission. The whole point of Malkin's book, as she herself describes it, is that the internment of Japanese Americans was justified. In that case you can't be upset about the Europeans. WHAT'S YOUR POINT? WHAT'S YOUR PURPOSE? If you're just angry at the reparations commission, go after the surviving members. Leave my family out of it. I never said the camps were anything other than what they were. They were not the death camps of the Nazis. Malkin spends a lot of time arguing this point, a straw man to punch around. Sure you can find a lot of uninformed verbiage condemning the camps. You and Malkin spend a lot of your time arguing with whatever easy targets you can find from the entire reparations movement to distract from the arguments you're losing with live people. If you really read the discussions, you'll notice that Mullen and Robinson don't need to drag straw men into the discussion because they have the integrity and knowledge to make mincemeat of her arguments on her own terms. I don't swear by the work of the Reparations committee. People knew and know the camps were wrong without their help. I swear by the reliable evidence and historical research I've read, but most of all by what my family went through. They made the best of it, but it was still constitutionally and morally wrong, and completely against what the U.S. stands for, or should. If today here in NYC Counterterrorism officials said all Arabs and South Asians had to leave the tri-state area that would be wrong too, even if they gave them free food and a place to sleep. Posted by Konrad at August 13, 2004 06:12 PMKonrad, as you well know because at least you purchased Lowman's (you know, the bitter old cracker) book... MAGIC intelligence in its raw form was available to just ten men. Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox, Director of Naval Intelligence Admiral Theodore Wilkinson, Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Harold Stark, Army Chief of Staff George Marshall, Army Director of Military Intelligence General Sherman Miles, Chief of Army War Plans General Leonard T. Gerow, Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of State Cordell Hull, and President Franklin D. Roosevelt – they were the only men in a position to make a knowledgeable decision. To state that no document exists that says, "WE ARE MAKING A DECISION TO EVACUATE BASED ON MAGIC" is disengenuous. My repsonse to such a charade is "Show the document that states the evacuation was based on "racism, wartime hysteria, and lack of political will."
Without any expertise whatsoever on the subject of military intelligence in general and MAGIC in particular, the commission's staff quickly "analyzed" MAGIC communications intelligence and reached conclusions about it which were contrary to the opinions of every recognized authority on MAGIC for the last 47 years. Not long after it was released the mistake-laden addendum so quickly written to cover the commissions ignorance was quietly withdrawn. And hears the kicker. The mistake-laden addendum written up after the report produced by people who had never even heard of MAGIC and had absolutely no authority to comment officially on it is the same stuff being provided as "extraordinary detail" from Personal Justice Denied (P.471-475) - WORD FOR WORD! To summarize, p.471-475 was never a part of the original report and you'll not find it in original versions of the report. That it exists in later volumes today after the commission originally withdrew it after admitting how ridiculous it is only serves to continue to undermine the credibilty of the circus known As the Commission on Wartime Internment and Relocation of Civilians. Now to the worn out attempt at villifying General DeWitt's "a Jap's a Jap" comment. First of all, DeWitt's report was entirely for public consumption and in fact justified many of the fears that existed in the general populace. The comment was also for the consumption of the Empire of Japan, for the Americans had to justify the mass evacuation of 120,000 people without letting the enemy no their diplomatic and military codes had been compromised. The plan worked flawlessly. The Empire of Japan immediately used the evacuation for propoganda purposes (like today's reparations movment), but knowledge of Japan's codes being broken was never revieled. Unfortunatley, DeWitt's comments are now bandied about and taken entirely out of historical context. You know what Konrad we actually have something in common, because the mother of my children happens to be Japanese, too.... I cringe at the thought of my kids growing up as (dare I say it...) BITTER! as you regarding this history. You have a big chip on your shoulder, and you're using this history to MAKE A BUCK! AT THE EXPENSE OF MY KIDS! Sorry Konrad, but that pisses me off. My kids aren't going to grow up with chips on their shoulders regarding this history to satifsy whatever political/activist bullshit motivations some segments of the Japanese-American community that CLAIMS to represent them is interested in making. But it all comes down to the $$$$$$$ in the long run, doesn't it? Best of luck with your film. Hope you make millions.... Posted by Tony at August 13, 2004 07:10 PMI'll let you know when the bucks start rolling in. God help your kids. Posted by Konrad at August 14, 2004 10:04 AMHe does every day..... Have a nice life Konrad. Posted by tony at August 14, 2004 10:12 AM"The Empire of Japan immediately used the evacuation for propoganda purposes (like today's reparations movment), but knowledge of Japan's codes being broken was never revieled." How about the use of Japanese American internees as bargaining chips by our own government to leverage against American POWs captured by Japan? Anyone who wants to read more of Tony's posts, just grab some of his text from the above and throw it in Google, he pastes the same stuff everywhere. Someone with more time and patience than me can engage with him and break through the self-contained circularity. Posted by Konrad at August 20, 2004 12:44 PM |